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Much to Answer For

James Q. Wilson’s Legacy

Zen Sutherland


The esteemed political scientist and criminologist James Q. Wilson died in March. He wrote many important works, including a leading textbook on American government currently in its twelfth edition. He was awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2003.

His most significant legacy, however, lies in the impact of his scholarship and journalism on the contemporary structures of social control in the United States. His 1975 book Thinking About Crime provides academic justification for a massive increase in imprisonment in the United States that began in the late 1970s and has yet fully to run its course. (The United States incarcerates at five times the rate of Britain, the leading jailer in Europe.) It is therefore entirely fitting—indeed, imperative—that there be extensive, critical public discussion about the intellectual impact of this towering figure of the study of American government.

While I came to disagree sharply with him on criminal justice policy, I must acknowledge that I liked Jim Wilson, the man. He was urbane, witty, and generous with his time. He was unfailingly open to hearing both sides of any argument. I knew him to be loyal to a fault, even-tempered, and often a wise observer of American politics. I admired his modesty and his prodigious work ethic. Indeed, my appreciation of “Gentleman Jim” dates back nearly three decades, to 1983, when he came to my humble Afro-American Studies office at Harvard, practically hat in hand, with a draft chapter on “race and crime” for an as-yet-unpublished book, Crime and Human Nature. He was writing it with Richard Herrnstein, who would go on to write The Bell Curve (1994) with Charles Murray. Wilson asked for my unsparing critique, which I provided. It impressed me that, when the book appeared two years later, he and Herrnstein had taken my criticisms seriously.

I went on to work closely with Wilson on a number of projects. In 1987 we co-edited a volume on families, schools, and delinquency prevention. We served together for a decade on the editorial board of the influential neoconservative magazine The Public Interest. And in the early 1990s we were colleagues on the Council of Academic Advisors at the American Enterprise Institute.

That last association ended for me in 1995, when I publicly resigned my position after AEI fellows wrote two incendiary and what seemed to me borderline racist books—The Bell Curve and The End of Racism (1995), by Dinesh D’Souza. In those years, and partly in response to those two books, I began my long march out of the right wing of American intellectual life. And, in so doing, I slowly came to the view—which I continue to hold—that some of Wilson’s labors have done enormous damage to the quality of American democracy. His rationalizing and legitimating of over-reliance on incarceration in U.S. social policy have been particularly destructive. It frustrates me that even as mounting evidence over the past decade showed that crime control had become too punitive, Wilson stubbornly reiterated the views that he had developed four decades ago.

As a public policy intellectual, Wilson was the product of a particular moment in American history. One has to think of him in connection with such writers as his mentor in the Harvard government department, Edward Banfield; his friend and colleague at The Public Interest, Nathan Glazer; and his compatriot and like-minded social critic, Daniel Patrick Moynihan. That generation saw the postwar liberal belief in the possibility of a progressive resolution to the “urban problem” crash upon the rocky shoals of the riot-torn, welfare-fed, criminal, and black 1960s metropolis. While the left did not distinguish itself in those years, neither did Wilson’s cohort. Considered from today’s perspective, much of what the nascent neoconservative thinkers had to say was pretty appalling. Banfield’s classic lament of the failures of 1960s urban policy, The Unheavenly City, looks an awful lot like reactionary drivel. (His argument that persistent poverty is due to the bad values and character of the poor—first set out in his book about Italy, The Moral Basis of a Backward Society—might have made sense for Sicily, but did not travel well to the South Bronx.) And in retrospect Moynihan—whose work Wilson often extolled—hardly comes off looking like a great thinker. Calling a spade a spade turns out not to be a social policy.

In my long march out of the right wing, I came to believe that Wilson’s labors did enormous damage to American democracy.

Call me unforgiving, but I can still remember sitting at Jim and Roberta Wilson’s dinner table in Malibu, California in January 1993 listening to Murray explain, much to my consternation and with Jim’s silent acquiescence, that social inequality is inevitable because “dull” parents are simply less effective at child-rearing than “bright” ones. (I rejected then, and still do, Murray and Herrnstein’s claim that profound social disparities are due mainly to variation in innate individual traits that cannot be remedied via social policy.) Neither can Glenn Loury in 2012 ignore what he failed to see in 1983: that Wilson and Herrnstein’s Crime and Human Nature—a book that sets out to lay bare the underlying bio-genetic, somatic, and psychological determinants of individuals’ criminal behavior—is an enterprise of dubious scientific value. The behavioral theories of social control that Wilson spawned—see, for instance, his 1983 Atlantic Monthly piece, “Raising Kids” (not unlike training pets, as it happens)—and the pop–social psychology salesmanship of his and George Kelling’s so-called “theory” about broken windows is a long way from rocket science, or even good social science. This work looks more like narrative in the service of rationalizing and justifying hierarchy, subordination, coercion, and control. In short, it smacks of highbrow, reactionary journalism.

But, unlike most tabloid scribblers, Wilson’s writings had a massive effect. The broken windows argument—by cracking down on minor offenses, the police can prevent the perception of disorder that leads to more serious crimes—has influenced urban law enforcement strategists throughout the nation. Even so, as scholarly critics across the ideological spectrum have noted, there is little evidence beyond the anecdotal to show that such “quality of life” policing actually leads to lower crime rates. When I consider the impact of his ideas, I can’t help but think about the millions of folks being hassled even as we speak by coercive state agents who are acting on some Wilsonian theory recommending stop-and-frisk policing.

Neither can I overlook the reinforcement of subliminal racial stigmata associated with the institutions of confinement, surveillance, and patrol that Americans have embraced over the past two generations under the watchful and approving gaze of Professor Wilson.

I don’t think Jim Wilson had a racist bone in his body. Neither do I doubt his sincerity when he expressed regret, as he often did, that blacks are overrepresented among those being punished for having committed crimes. But intent is one thing; results are another. A politics of vengeance has abetted the unprecedented rise in U.S. incarceration rates since 1980. I am made keenly aware of the deleterious impact these policies have had on residents of urban black communities, law-abiders and law-breakers alike. This was not Wilson’s intent, but plainly it was one consequence of ideas that he championed.

Was Jim Wilson fair-minded and decent? Yes. Did he run a good meeting? Was he an effective academic entrepreneur? Yes to both. Was he often a penetrating observer of and always a prolific writer on American politics? To be sure. Was he right about the direction that incarceration needed to go in 1970? Perhaps. Did liberals underestimate the fierce political backlash from the disgruntled ethnic working classes circa 1975, as Wilson strongly argued? Yes, they did. Wilson was not wrong about everything.

But is his 1997 book The Moral Sense—which cites human nature to make a case against moral relativism, and which Wilson thought his most important publication—a work for the ages? I doubt it seriously. Is Thinking About Crime up there in the pantheon of American social criticism along with Silent SpringThe Other AmericaThe Feminine Mystique, or The Fire Next Time? Not hardly.

James Q. Wilson was not the Thomas Hobbes of our time—though it is a good guess that he fancied himself grappling with a Leviathan. A cloistered moral sanctimony (“Tobacco shortens one’s life; cocaine debases it”) coupled with an enthusiasm for police work (“prison in America . . . helps explain why this country has a lower rate of burglary than Australia, Austria, Canada, England, Germany, and the Netherlands”): that’s another way to think about the legacy of James Q. Wilson. Unkind to be sure, but not inaccurate.

With all due respect to the influence of his writings on bureaucracy, policing, and social policy, I’m just not buying the hagiographies that appeared in the likes of the Wall Street Journal, Los Angeles Times, and Boston Globe after his passing. For my money, he died with an awful lot to answer for.


Multimedia


Glenn Loury and UCLA Professor Mark Kleiman have a spirited debate on James Q. Wilson’s legacy. (Bloggingheads.tv)


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Comments

1 |
Just the kind of unflinching assessment I correctly assumed we wouldn't get from the big papers. I envision that enthusiasm for police work in the way of a child who answers the question, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" with "A cop!" Juvenilia.
— posted 05/08/2012 at 15:26 by Lewis
2 |
The foreseeable consequences of your acts are a key component of determining liability. The decimation of families by imprisonment, the exaltation of often-times sadistic and dishonest law enforcement, the life-long ruination of legitimate economic prospects ...

"Cloistered moral sanctimony" is a good description of a common point-of-view, and our society is gagging on it.
— posted 05/08/2012 at 17:00 by MinnItMan
3 |
NYC Anyone?
Anyone who claims broken windows "doesn't work" is an intellectual buffoon.

The evidence, as opposed to your opinion, is clear from the implementation of CompStat in NYC, LA and other municipalities.

CompStat data analysis by Police departments is effectively broken windows in action.
— posted 05/09/2012 at 14:16 by KR
4 |
Rejoinder
There is a good deal of shoddy thinking in this piece, which stands out because of its attack on a purportedly shoddy thinker, in the author's view.

We know that crime went down sharply. We also know that crime went down sharply after broken windows policing was implemented. There are some hypotheses that other environmental factors were responsible, such as abortion rates, removal of lead from paint etc. But these are hypotheses and to say there is little evidence that broken windows was responsible only shows that social science is different from hard science and that there will never be definitive proof. But broken windows, if the author were intellectually honest, must be considered a leading hypothesis. But if the author prefers the other hypotheses, then he must consider "underlying bio-genetic, somatic, and psychological determinants of individuals’ criminal behavior" which the author deems unworthy of investigation, thus undercutting his own criticism.

To boot, the author minimizes the importance of the drop in crime compared to "millions of folks being hassled even as we speak by coercive state agents who are acting on some Wilsonian theory recommending stop-and-frisk policing". Before the drop in crime, the big issues were being burglarized, mugged, raped and murdered. If life and limb are not the most important issues a society confronts, frankly I do not know what are. And to be blunt, being told I must endure physical threat to accommodate someone else's sensitivity is neither good policy nor good politics. People who argue thus should expect to have their priorities disregarded.

There is a lot of guilt by association. I also had contact with Murray when he was first forming his smug and wrong-headed theories and I remember that Herrnstein was justly criticized harshly in the Public Interest when he started to go off on the racialist bent. If you want to say, "I wish James Q Wilson, for all his authority, had come out and criticized Murray and Herrnstein", then say that, but don't try to tar Wilson with those views.

Finally, as far as what works of Wilson will stand the test of time and be considered great, you are as qualified to answer that as I am. But time, and not you or I, will answer that. That sort of carping just looks bitter and petty.

— posted 05/09/2012 at 16:16 by HDarrow
5 |
Mr.
Dear author.

I gather that you are upset with James Wilson A guy who was right about practically everything by your own admition. You are upset with him because the consequences of policies based on his rightness have a disproportionate impact on people you like.

In my book you are the one with something to answer for. Why do you so readily identify with criminals?
— posted 05/09/2012 at 21:01 by chuck
6 |
WW3
Someday his non-public contributions will be known. He was a remarkably astute interrogator and contrarian while serving on the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board. He arguably, single-handed (single intellect), prevented an escalation that would have put us on the doorstep of WW3. He was very capable of exploring an issue from both sides and accurately forecasting "If you do X, Y will happen." As he did in his analysis of crime and civil society.
— posted 05/10/2012 at 04:36 by Ari Tai
7 |
Addressing HDarrow
"Before the drop in crime, the big issues were being burglarized, mugged, raped and murdered. If life and limb are not the most important issues a society confronts, frankly I do not know what are. And to be blunt, being told I must endure physical threat to accommodate someone else's sensitivity is neither good policy nor good politics."

This could only come from someone rich and privileged enough to never comprehend what its like to suffer the humilities of being poor, especially poor and black. The average crime consists of a person taking a material possession from the other and whatever momentary emotional trauma that might entail. John Q Public doesn't and has never had to be concerned with losing "life or limb" whenever exiting their New York apartment as Hdarrow asininely suggests. So in exchange for the Hdarrow's of the world not worrying so much about their Ipod being lifted, we have tens of millions of people living life as sub-human. Not only are they deprived of a basic material well-being, but they are physically and mentally enslaved in massive prisons, both those prisons that publicly bare the label and those prisons in the cities and towns where they are said to live "free."

For HDarrow to be a little more secure in his material possessions, a massive sector of the society must lose liberty and dignity. And he dares to discuss "priorities?"
— posted 05/10/2012 at 05:11 by Calvin
8 |
Addressing Calvin
That is exactly what I am talking about. The attitude of "get over your mugging, privileged white boy" is a fast empathy-killer. When I, and, yes, hundreds of millions of Americans hear this, we have absolutely no intention of "comprehend[ing] what its like to suffer the humilities of being poor, especially poor and black" and no apologies for not doing so.

It is true that John Q. Public does not fear for his life when leaving New York apartments -- but precisely because of policies implementing James Q. Wilson's insights. (And that fact, which you do not seem to appreciate, has created the space for the empathy you want to encourage.) But in the 70s and 80s, New York was a dangerous place with muggings and shootings on the subway and arson in the Bronx. And to say "most people didn't get mugged" misses the point. How many plane crashes does it take to instill a lack of confidence in air travel? Not many.

There was a time before Clinton defused many of these controversies when Republican states were considered to include places like New Jersey, Connecticut and California. If the policy approach you advocate returns, so will those electoral maps.
— posted 05/10/2012 at 05:59 by HDarrow
9 |
I don't know if the broken windows policy worked or not. It does appear that after the policy was implemented, crime appeared to drop. What Loury does say is that there is little evidence other than the anecdotal to say that the policy worked. It does acknowledge other factors but because there appears to be no more definitive evidence, we are left to attribute the drop in crime to whatever passion consumes us at the time.

It seems that the question is was this policy worth it? It is not clear that every free individual gets to share in the advantages of the crime drop. By certain news reports, it appears that not every innocent person gets to share in the advantages in the crime drop. It is bad enough that innocent people would get incarcerated because of the fear of a more heinous or violent crime. But to add to it, the consequences of getting incarcerated and what it tends to do to your life prospects is even more troubling. Even if innocent people being incarcerated from time to time is a quirk of the system, the fact that they come mostly from a particular type of person (poor as opposed to middle class or rich) is less so. To take it even further, the appearance that the lack of suspicion among those groups has not diminished even as crime has diminished is troubling still.

I am not smart enough to know if broken windows has truly worked but are the consequences that have developed because of this policy either worth it or necessary?
— posted 05/12/2012 at 20:39 by Mike
10 |
Broken windows? Disproved. Crime dropped across the United States in cities and towns that attempted to implement the theory and in cities that didn't.
— posted 05/15/2012 at 03:38 by Lineman
11 |
policies always have unintended consequences, and whatever consequences there are they are open to multiple interpretations. There is evidence for some of wilson's claims. and, i am glad to hear the many good things you have to say about his character. he is the sort of person it seems we would want more of making policy analyses. His policies may be controversial, but your criticisms need to propose alternatives to be effective. the intuitiveness of his policy on broken windows or his proposals about human nature are difficult to refute, even though the consequences of these views need to be made clear. Many liberal policies also have unintended consequences. Often we need to find the right balance.
— posted 05/15/2012 at 03:43 by leslie glazer
12 |
The Urge to Purge
I am shocked, shocked to hear that James Q. Wilson held politically incorrect views. We should therefore go back to 1970s policies on crime. Sure, lots of innocent people will be murdered and raped, but that's a small price to pay for purging crimethink from the body politic.
— posted 05/15/2012 at 06:15 by Steve Sailer
13 |
Freakonomics on broken windows
In Ch 4 of this book by Levitt and Dubner the case is argued that what gets the crime rate down is not attention to minor crimes but hiring more cops. Innovative policing such as broken windows may help, but its feet on the beat (OK, bums on the front seat of a police cruiser) that really cause the effect.
— posted 05/15/2012 at 07:08 by Flabmeister
14 |
Distressingly void of specifics. Higher crime rates came about when society started approving of drug use and of having children without marriage. Race seems to matter because a black child, for whatever reason, is three times more likely to grow up without a father than a white child, fathers are crucial to disciplining male children, and males commit more than 90% of all crime.

Fifty years later, we are still dealing with the fallout of the 1960s.
— posted 05/15/2012 at 12:10 by cmarrou
15 |
"Shut up," he explained
This is typical professor-speak: "When he interacted with my criticisms, it was not drivel. The rest of the time it was."

I didn't see counter-arguments for any of Wilson's ideas. "Wilson doesn't empathise" is not an argument, neither is "Wilson's ideas will age poorly," nor can "Wilson had me to a dinner party where I sat next to someone I consider racist."

Argumentation involves interaction with ideas. I cannot imagine how anyone could confuse this with that.
— posted 05/15/2012 at 12:31 by in Columbus
16 |
Darrow addressing Calvin
"It is true that John Q. Public does not fear for his life when leaving New York apartments -- but precisely because of policies implementing James Q. Wilson's insights"

"Precisely" is precisely the issue, Darrow. Life is messy, and social science a messy set of mostly crappy tools. Very, very little "precise" about it, in the hands of Wilson or anyone else. Certainty isn't all it's cracked up to be.
— posted 05/15/2012 at 13:12 by civisisus
17 |
Lives were saved
Having lost my son (a white college student) in a violent NYC crime in the early 1980s, during which he lost a small amount of money and an inexpensive wrist watch, I don't think much of people who write articles such as this.

As has already been noted, the author is simply pro-criminal.
— posted 05/15/2012 at 15:12 by JamesG
18 |
NA
"The foreseeable consequences of your acts are a key component of determining liability." Now there is a comment that we should consider. After supporting Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot (mentored by the Paris), Ho, Che, etc. do you ever hear the left accept responsibility for the outcome of what they support? Not likely! The list goes on what seems like forever; Katrina and the Sierra club law suit to prevent repairing the levees, the great society program and the destruction of the inner city and the African American family etc. The left is never concerned with the damage its policies cause.
— posted 05/15/2012 at 16:27 by Harold J Helbock
19 |
Contrary to popular liberal belief, deceased conservatives are entitled to the protection of the old maxim:

De mortuis nil nisi bonum dicendum est
— posted 05/15/2012 at 19:25 by Walter Sobchak
20 |
"Silent Spring," "The Other America," "The Feminine Mystique," "The Fire Next Time," the pantheon of American social criticism? Not hardly.
— posted 05/15/2012 at 22:41 by rkh
21 |
I remember New York when every block seemed to have a menacing person, if not more. But, the menace was just local (and admittedly very real. I am genuinely sorry for James G's loss). "Broken Windows" made the blocks feel safe, but the city itself became a world-wide menace. "Broken Corner Windows?"
— posted 05/15/2012 at 23:35 by MinnItMan
22 |
"I rejected then, and still do, Murray and Herrnstein’s claim that profound social disparities are due mainly to variation in innate individual traits that cannot be remedied via social policy."

Do you also reject the roundness of the earth? The existence of the atom?

You can debate the percentage genetics contributes to social disparity but the science has gone way beyond the point where anyone can reject it utterly and still claim to an audience. It simply isn't yours to reject.
— posted 05/15/2012 at 23:42 by Scoop
23 |
Not Convinced
I think Loury's analysis would be better had he actually, y'know, engaged the better parts of the arguments of Wilson (not to mention Murray, D'Souza, et alia) rather than just contradict them, call names, and beat his breast.

Since incarcerating more, we have less crime. Start there. If Loury wants to make more subtle arguments, that some of this incarceration creates all the benefit, while other bits are just wasted and therefore merely punitive, go ahead and do that. It could be so. But the central fact is left out.

So too with The Bell Curve and the End of Racism. First, deal with the central arguments and show them wrong (rather than merely unfortunate and unattractive), or incomplete, or misattributed. Only then, after proving a person or people wrong, can one speculate on reasons why they are wrong - what prejudice or blindness prevents them from seeing reason.

Loury doesn't do this, or at least, not here. He answers the strawmen only. Wilson's POV has not been disproven - therefore there is no shame in his continuing to hold it decades later, even though Loury has changed his views. Mr. Loury seems to have gotten angrier and angrier over the years because he didn't convince anyone, so that must be their fault. Unrelenting bastards, eh?

It's fun to write "my long journey away from the right," isn't it? I know, because I have so enjoyed writing "my long journey away from the left" all these years. It has a nice ring to it, but it ultimately isn't an actual - whatchamacallit - Logical Argument.

Dig?
— posted 05/16/2012 at 00:58 by Assistant Village Idiot
24 |
"subliminal racial stigmata" -- who edited this piece? It's meandering and autobiographical and does rather appear like an attempt to associate one's self with a dead semi-celebrity.
— posted 05/16/2012 at 01:32 by Dave Bowman
25 |
The "thinking" in this article is symptomatic of why this country is headed down hill. Loury is more concerned with the welfare of criminals than victims. His attitude is, unfortunately,widespread and pernicious. Besides being annoying, Loury has nothing to offer. He doesn't care; he is being sensitive not rational. His article on Wilson is an attack of the Lilliputian.
— posted 05/16/2012 at 05:08 by John
26 |
Freakanomics author Steven Levitt showed the importance of increased sentences for reducing crime rates in the 1990's.

Levitt, Steven D. (Winter 2004). "Understanding Why Crime Fell in the 1990s: Four Factors that Explain the Decline and Six that Do Not" (PDF). Journal of Economic Perspectives 18: 163–190.

http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/LevittUnderstandingWhyCrime2004.pdf
— posted 05/16/2012 at 08:02 by M Steinberg
27 |
As a conservative, I very much disagree with:

De mortuis nil nisi bonum dicendum est

Death is just the right time to indict someone for a life poorly spent. When Justice Kennedy dies, for example, I'm hoping for a lot of cutting humor about how he writes his opinions. If there are enough piercing obituaries, public figures may behave better.

In this particular case, I'll note three things
(1) In this sort of piece, it's fine for Prof. Loury just to list where he thinks Prof. Wilson was wrong--- there's not the space for a good argument over even one of the many point.
(2) Prof. Loury is completely and utterly wrong on every point, I think. (But this sort of comment is not the place to respond.)
(3) Prof. Loury, to his credit, has not adopted the liberal "unconstrained vision" habit of demonizing people who disagree with him. He writes like a conservative in this piece in the sense that he grants Prof. Wilson many good qualities and just says he unwittingly has hurt the world with his ideas. More liberals should consider that possibility when they think about conservatives.
— posted 05/16/2012 at 14:35 by Eric Rasmusen
28 |
This Glenn C. Loury seems to be a ranting moron.
— posted 05/16/2012 at 15:12 by Rufus T. Washington
29 |
citizenist
Wilson said Blacks commit murder at 8 times the rate of whites. This number is confirmed by the National Crime Victimization Survey.


From Beyond the Color Line, here is a quote by Wilson from his chapter on Crime
"Estimating the crime rates of racial groups is, of course, difficult because we only know the arrest rate. If police are more (or less) likely to arrest a criminal of a given race, the arrest rate will overstate (or understate) the true crime rate. To examine this problem, researchers have compared the rate at which criminal victims report (in the National Crime Victimization Survey, or NCVS) the racial identity of whoever robbed or assaulted them with the rate at which the police arrest robbers or assaulters of different races. Regardless of whether the victim is black or white, there are no significant differences between victim reports and police arrests. This suggests that, though racism may exist in policing (as in all other aspects of American life), racism cannot explain the overall black arrest rate. The arrest rate, thus, is a reasonably good proxy for the crime rate."

— posted 05/16/2012 at 20:45 by tombarnes
30 |
As someone who's spent time in different cultures around the world
I've come to believe that humans are neither inevitably violent or criminal, even where poverty is far more rampant than in the U.S. The taproot of our crime/drug/violence issues is in our culture, not our races.
— posted 05/17/2012 at 00:50 by db
31 |
Oh,wow, Compstat, and stuff
The interval during which CompStat is credited with bringing down crime in NYC happens to coincide with among the lowest rates of urban unemployment in recent history. Anyone who breathlessly quotes 90s crime statistics alongside tweaks to sentencing laws and compstat as if this establishes causation is personally responsible for upholding Feynman's condemnation of the Social Sciences as Cargo Cults.

Dear Conservatives,
Please take some of that scrutiny you reserve for real scientists and apply it to these criminologists/social scientists you seem to love so blindly. Because most of their work is crap, and history will remember your adulation for this tripe as evidence of intellectual inferiority.
sincerely,
longshanks
— posted 05/17/2012 at 21:36 by longshanks
32 |
longshanks gets it right, of course... and the comments above by conservative detractors do not even begin to hide the craven thinking behind them. Wealth and privilege are the two factors behind the greatest crimes in our history - including the now 3 decades long criminal transfer of wealth (the greatest economic crime in history) from the poor and working classes via the abhorrent tax code and the extractive neoliberalism that has infected both political parties. To read those comments is to know the truth behind our failed American culture. To use the vernacular - you folks are pigs.
— posted 05/18/2012 at 10:16 by bigchin
33 |
What is your point?
All of those words and not a single comment on the morally, intellectually, and politically bankrupt war on drugs? Oh, wait, that must be because Lowry and Kleiman loved the war on drugs, and are evolving on it, but still can't resist "helping" people by contorting policy to be anything short of just ending it. You just can't get Kleiman to say he was wrong, for example, and that we should end it. He must keep producing plans that are short of that. It is impossible to convince someone of something when their salaries depend on their not understanding it, to paraphrase Upton Sinclair.
— posted 05/18/2012 at 11:34 by EF
34 |
No arguments
And yes, those commenters who point out that Lowry doesn't make a single point, and doesn't even address Wilson's deficiencies are totally right. I am not a fan of Wilson, but Lowry used to make simple arguments and defend them, when he was a so-called conservative. I have no idea what his views are now, other than producing nuanced plans that require us to employ him for their development and implementation - how convenient! He and Kleiman especially, should look in a mirror. They've produced a lot of pain in society by legitimizing the left-wing/right-wing "consensus" on the war on drugs.
— posted 05/18/2012 at 11:40 by EF
35 |
Read more Loury
EF and others: In many of his other writings, Loury makes very cogent and straightforward arguments about why mass incarceration is a problem and what tough-on-crime policy gets wrong. See, e.g.: http://www.amazon.com/Incarceration-American-Values-Boston-Review/dp/0262123118/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337349163&sr=8-1

I wish I could link to the original article, but it's not online since Boston Review started selling it as a book.
— posted 05/18/2012 at 13:57 by Denis
36 |
Longshanks et al
We had a significant decline in unemployment in the 80s as well, which is what happens during economic recoveries. What the 80s did not have was broken windows policing and, yes, CompStat.

Much of the criticism of James Q. Wilson and the defense of Glenn Loury seems to rest on that you cannot "prove" broken windows theory, which again only shows that social science will always lack the certitude of the hard sciences. To say that correlation is not causation is a truism. But then to argue to reverse policies that were related to, coincided with, etc a spectacular drop in crime based on your theories that everything will be OK, which theories are even more unproven, is, shall we say, "faith-based".

It is one thing to argue for changing a policy associated with a failure, even when it is not known whether the policy caused the failure. It is quite another to argue for changing a policy associated with a success, based on whether it is not known if the policy caused the success.

Nobody here is arguing for people who are innocent to be convicted and improsioned. If the justice system in New York State is sending people to prison on evidence that did not meet the standard of "beyond reasonable doubt" that is a problem separate from broken windows. The people who are attacking broken windows and incarceration are by definition arguing in defense of people who were stopped based on probable cause and convicted on evidence beyond reasonable doubt. And they dare speak of "intellectual inferiority" and "pigs"?

What this discussion seems to be showing is that one's views of broken windows is not based on the evidence, but is based on whether one thinks that reducing violent crime is the first and foremost obligation of local government or whether one thinks that other goals (e.g. sensitivity, redistribution) are more important. I happen to think that those other goals have their merits, but only after dangerous people are off the street and quarantined from society.
— posted 05/18/2012 at 15:43 by HDarrow
37 |
After stealing the land from the indigenous peoples of America, you brought Blacks as slaves from Africa and made them work for you from time immemorial, thereby generating enormous quantities of wealth. When you were forced to free them (against your will), they naturally occupied the lowest rungs of society. Having been unable to make it in a system that was rigged against them in the first place, you have sunk to the lowest possible level of blaming them for their situation. You might succeed in fooling yourselves, but the rest of the world wasn't born yesterday.
— posted 05/18/2012 at 17:30 by Maracatu
38 |
Sorry, But I Think That Wilson Was Racist
Wilson specifically excluded white collar financial crimes (aka what the Banksters do) from his theories, saying that it would not work with them.

When one considers the greater social consequences at those social levels of arrest, trial, and incarceration, one can only conclude that he did not want his policies applied to white people.
— posted 05/18/2012 at 17:34 by Matthew G. Saroff
39 |
Prospero & Caliban
I agree with # 37. America has historically been a racial supremacist society. Unfortunately there is a current of opinion, exemplified by a host of talk show hosts like Glenn Beck, that sustains that the legacy of slavery is irrelevant in 21 century America. I wish I could believe them, but they are simply wrong. Slavery was defeated but was replaced by Jim Crow (http://www.pbs.org/wnet/jimcrow/). There is no clearer evidence that the US was a racial supremacist society into the 20th century than by the existence of the one drop rule (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule). Did this not have an impact? Even after the civil rights movement triumphed, affirmative action laws had to be implemented to overcome the legacy of a system that deemed Black people as inferior. This is not a trivial fact of US history! We are lucky today to have many prominent and productive Black members of society precisely because of affirmative action! But even that seems to have been short-lived as America's racist legacy is obviously seeking to re-assert itself. You have to be blind and deaf not to witness the blatantly racist vitriol that has been hurled at Obama since he assumed the presidency. The message to the wider Black population is clear as day: a large portion of the White population does not like us and does not want to see us get ahead in this society. What impact do you think that has on the psyche of Blacks in America?
— posted 05/18/2012 at 19:05 by empathy
40 |
Ideologues are the Problem
What frustrates so many of your friends up north is the relentless and single-minded pursuit of ideological victory which characterises US politics and policy making. Wilson was clearly an ideologue, unwilling to explore seriously either the limitations or the drawbacks of his policy prescriptions. Many of his critics on the left were equally impervious to the evidence that Wilson, whatever his flaws, may have been on to something.

Broken windows policing makes a lot of sense, and it seems silly to ignore the empirical evidence of its success. Imprisoning over 1% of your black population, on the other hand, is overkill, both literally and figuratively. Stopping and humiliating hundreds of thousands of innocent New Yorkers of colour annually is preposterous and transparently racist.

But in America, it seems impossible for either the left or the right to acknowledge the limitations of their ideologies. The pathologies of the inner city were and are very real, and placing blame for them--however well justified--does nothing to address the problem. But criminalising every poor person's bad behaviour seems equally foolish, counterproductive, and often bigoted.

Canadian politics often frustrates me as well, but we at least seem to be fairly successful at breaking through the ideological logjams, enacting sensible policies, and revising them once their drawbacks become apparent. Or at least we were good at this until the Albertans took over one of our political parties.
— posted 05/19/2012 at 13:49 by Winnipegger
41 |
To Denis
Yes, mass incarceration is obviously a problem. However, I have yet to see Loury or Kleiman simply say there should be no policy on private behaviour. They must justify themselves, their jobs, their sense of worth, by continuing to pump out policy recommendations. Simply going on the record to say jailing everyone for things our presidents have done is stupid, is simply a$$-covering, but not serious policy.
— posted 05/21/2012 at 17:17 by EF
42 |
Ridiculous screed. Loury is not half the man or scholar Wilson was, even if Wilson was too liberal (oops, "neoconservative"). Blacks should be thanking Wilson for his 'manipulationist' strategy for reducing violent crime (a substantially nonwhite phenomenon imposed on innocent, peaceable whites). Those of us on the Hard Right prefer a return to routine, public executions, as well as very liberal 'private execution / self-defense + concealed carry' laws. Real racists just want all blacks deported back to Africa, per both Jefferson and Lincoln, which would admittedly massively lower the crime rate.

Our so-called social pathologies are all self-inflicted by idiot liberals. A seriously conservative society would have very few problems.
— posted 05/23/2012 at 15:48 by Leon Haller
43 |
Your article, which I come to from the Arts & Letters website, correctly states that Wilson gave intellectual cover to some terrible public policies, inadvertently at first, but less innocently later, once the problems with those policies became clearer. This raises for me the question of why so many administrators, commissioners, politicians, and conservatives wanted to pursue these policies. To be sure, they wanted to end the scourge of crime, as did liberals. But they were willing to do so at enormous cost to millions of innocent people. Was it just racism? The current policies advocated by these people, or their acolytes, indicate a viciousness of mind, and a disregard for the traditional values of our democratic Republic, that seem a 180 degree turn away from civilization. It is not racism alone, but a primitive, fearful, fundamentalist, and deeply stupid attitude that has emerged. Please explain!
— posted 05/24/2012 at 21:35 by Keith
44 |
"Innocent People"
The repeated confusion of the concepts of search, arrest and conviction is hardly a sign of sophisticated thought. Broken windows is not a concept of courtroom conduct. Anyone who jumps from broken windows policing to victimization of innocent people need to answer basic questions:

Do they think people stopped and searched or questioned on the street did not present the police with probable cause?

Do they think the arrests were legally invalid?

Do they think that the prosecutors failed to carry their burden of proof beyond reasonable doubt when they achieved convictions?

Supporters of broken windows policing know the answers to these questions. Do the opponents?
— posted 05/26/2012 at 01:53 by HDarrow
45 |
Wilson's real crime
There are plenty of stupid, poorly-educated and prejudiced conservatives. These people generally have a "lock 'em up" attitude to crime, and "they just don't want to work" attitude to welfare recipients. They believe it's a bad idea to have children brought up without fathers, because the Bible tells them so. They think that, since many other prejudiced-against minorities came to America and succeeded, so could Blacks, if they wanted to. They wouldn't know a correlation coefficient from a top quark.

There are plenty of sensitive, intelligent, well-educated liberals. They believe that Black crime is ultimately the fault of whites, and if we only had sensitive policing, generous welfare policies, and a non-incarceration approach to crime. They believe that there are all kinds of families, and that patriarchal nuclear families aren't such a hot idea anyway.

Wilson's great crime was to demonstrate with good social science that the Bible-bashers were right and the sensitive liberals were wrong.
— posted 07/05/2012 at 15:22 by Doug1943
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About the Author

Glenn C. Loury is Merton P. Stoltz Professor of the Social Sciences at Brown University and author of The Anatomy of Racial Inequality and Race, Incarceration, and American Values

Glenn C. Loury,
Inequality and Solidarity
Why Are So Many Americans in Prison?
Strongly Worded Dissents

Dalton Conley,
The Geography of Poverty

Stephen Steinberg,
Poor Reason


   



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